Current number:
041957
Any other previous number(s):
ADE961880
Notes:
Moved to Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway 3/10

Preservation location:
Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway
Category:
IU 04xxxx series

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Bo\'ness & Kinneil Railway** *** ****Alex Betteney
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Comments

The following comments have been left on photos of this vehicle. To reply, just visit one of the photos.

  • 041957

    18 January 2004 - Martin Allen

    I'm not convinced that this is a milk tank. Looks like a steam loco tender u/frame with the tank off another vehicle (probably an oil tank), judging by the filler valve on the top. The tank straps do not look original. I guess that it is a waste oil wagon. Any ideas? (From the part owner of S4430 Milk Tank on the Bluebell Railway!)

  • 041957

    18 February 2007 - Ben Williams

    This tank may finally move soon as it appears the rest of the stock in the yard is being cleared at the moment. It may be heading for Booths although could be ripe for preservation?

  • 041957

    14 March 2007 - Dave Carson

    Still there! You can see its spoked wheels behind the two Mk2s 6900 & 6901 that are also stuck there.

  • 041957

    24 June 2008 - Ben Williams

    Still there last weekend with the two sandite coaches and two cement tanks...

  • 041957

    12 October 2008 - Allan Stevens

    Both this and the Mk2s are both gone now - they were taken away on 9th October by low-loader.

  • 041957

    18 October 2008 - Ben Williams

    Recently arrived here after spending many years in the yard opposite Cambridge station (behind the Intercity sandite coaches.) I'm not sure yet where its final home is...

  • 041957

    18 October 2008 - okotokspaul

    The number looks freshly painted??

  • 041957

    18 October 2008 - Ben Williams

    It does, but its not that new as I saw it on some other photos from some years back. Anyone know what it was used for at Cambridge please? Assume waste oil? And as previously discussed, it is thought the tank is actually an addition to an old steam tender underframe - hence its appeal to preservationists.

  • 041957

    18 October 2008 - Paul Bartlett

    I have recently posted two earlier photos of this at

    http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p54191835.html

    http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p54191836.html

    Does anyone know more about the origin of this - from the LNER departmental series. I do not know why I thought the frame was ex GER, someone suggested more possible to be GC.

    Paul

  • 041957

    19 October 2008 - Ben Williams

    Thanks Paul. Interesting to see it has been in the same spot since at least 1990!

  • 041957

    20 October 2008 - Phil Hetherington

    When I asked some of our loco chaps about this some while ago, they thought it looked like an LNER tender underframe (similar to the tender behind loco 61264, for example). I have not done a detailed comparison to verify this. Personally I think it's rather nice as a tank wagon!

  • 041957

    20 October 2008 - Phil Hetherington

    ...Although, further to previous, I can see more of Robinson about it than I can Gresley/Thompson. A quick look at www.lner.info for photos and comparison of the 'cut out' shape between the axles shows what I mean.

  • 041957

    21 October 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    I would agree this is a GCR tender frame. The only issue is the missing steps, if they were added it is virtually identical to the tender frame of Morayshire a preserved D49 at SRPS. I've not had time to look at the O4 preserved on the GCR railway in Loughborough but would politely guess its the same ie it is of GCR origin

  • 041957

    30 October 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Found an article from about a year ago and it mentioned an old boiler at Manngapps Farm being used for a "new build" D7 (a GCR engine) This would be at Loughborough I guess so did they get the tender?

  • 041957

    30 October 2008 - Ben Williams

    Interesting! The boiler is no doubt this one

    http://www.departmentals.com/photo/041978

    which was broken up last year I believe. However I don't think it would be compatible with this frame...?

  • 041957

    31 October 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    I have to agree, having done some more "digging" the boiler on 041978 is round top and the D7 project boiler is belpaire. I also found a website with lots of of information on the D7 project: just "google" Great Central Railway Rolling Stock Trust. They also have a bit on the "Barnum" coaches which were in departmental stock, one being at Barnetby Station. The D7 project also admits to having a GCR tender frame which was used as a snowplough. So the GCR frame pictured is where exactly? Another little aside 4 boilers were found in 1986, one is with the D7 project, one with the "atlantic project" on the Bluebell Railway and thus were are the other two?

  • 041957

    7 November 2008 - Phil Hetherington

    Piecing various strands of information together it now seems that this is a much older GCR tender frame (Parker/Pollitt era) whereas the one the D9 project have is a newer one (Robinson era). But not having seen either, this info is unconfirmed. Certainly there are slight differences between this one and photos I can find of Robinson ones, although there is a family likeness.

  • 041957

    18 November 2008 - Chris Hembry

    This is in fact NBR tender number 9879 (ex C11). Withdrawn in 1936 and converted to sludge tender at Doncaster. Converted again at Doncaster in 1944 as a fuel tank for use with J45(DES1) diesel shunters. Never used at Cambridge but spent most its life at Whitemoor yard.

  • 041957

    19 November 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Thanks for this final comment it was NBR. I've trawled throught the RCTS Locomotive of the LNER and it all begins to make sense. One of 11 sent south in 1936 after withdrawl of NBR Atlantics. A photo exists of one, as a sludge tender, at Grantham in the early 1950's in LNER livery as departmental 941672. It clearly matches the one shown here, though in my defense it has always been commented, probably wrongly, the NBR Atlantics (C11) shared features with the GCR Atlantics. The RCTS Part 10a says the tank came from service vehicle 962033 and the new vehicle was numbered 961880. The final sentence says its fate is undiscovered! Hope it has gone to a good home, could even use it as part of a new build NBR Atlantic?

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Anyone know what finallly happened to this vehicle?

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - Dave Smith

    its bin scrapped

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Thanks for the information. I think the chaps at SRPS will be a tad unhappy that we have lost this piece of Scottish history. To top it off they were recently offered the turntable from Perth but it was cut up before they could get to it!

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - Ben Williams

    I'm almost certain it is still at Wishaw actually...

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - Jon Horswell

    Can someone please find out for sure as after so long OOU it will be a real shame to see it scrapped.

  • 041957

    8 December 2008 - Phillip J. Fry

    I was at Wishaw yesterday - it definitely wasn't there. The lads in the yard said it went to nearby Kingsbury

  • 041957

    9 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    strange this I did text a certain A Goodman who I know through his ownership of an Austerity and e-mailed the company but no reply to either. Personally one of my favourite class of locomotive and one was deemed worthy of preservation in 1938 but finally cut up due to Mr A Hitler invading Poland in 1939. I doubt I'll be alone in being "gutted" but accept some things are beyond redemption though for its age it looked not too bad!

  • 041957

    9 December 2008 - Ben Williams

    I will be a little shocked too if this really has gone for scrap considering how long it has survived and the reasons discussed above... I will make enquiries.

  • 041957

    9 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    I can definitely confirm it is not scrapped, having spoken to A Goodman personally this PM, and is still in the yard. The good news is its identity is now known and confirmed (with help from this site) so it is likely to go to a good home. I've certainly passed this information to SRPS and NBR Study Group who seemed unaware of the recent developments

  • 041957

    10 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Promise my last posting on this. I also suspect its posted to the wrong bit but the North British Railway Study Group would like to publish an article on this and abviously need permission to use this photograph. Can this be granted please?

  • 041957

    10 December 2008 - Ben Williams

    Good news it still exists. I have forwarded your request to Roy. I would appreciate it if the website could also get a mention please!

  • 041957

    10 December 2008 - Roy Hennefer

    Iain, Happy for you to use the pic providing mention is made of this website. Will email you this and the other pic I took if you wish.

  • 041957

    11 December 2008 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Thanks for the kind generous offer to allow us to use both photos. I've already drafted an article and the website gets a mention. I've also let the SRPS know and hopefully this tender can get a home back in Scotland. I'll obviously also acknowledge in the article the origional copyright and permission to use. Thanks once again and amazed she has survived for 72 years after withdrawl.

  • 041957

    21 May 2009 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Just a bit more. The chaps from SRPS have visited and confirmed what was known ie NBR atlantic tender. Lets hope they feel its a viable and worthwhile item to save

  • 041957

    27 July 2009 - IAIN CHALMERS

    I'm afraid it doesn't look good. Got a letter from the SRPS chaps recently and they reasonably consider saving it could be possible but what would you do with it in the longer term? I have to say I agree that there is no point in collecting historical items and allowing them to continue to deteriorate in a different part of the country. The NBR Atlantic story is now complete.

  • 041957

    27 July 2009 - Ben Williams

    Assume still at Wishaw at the moment?

  • 041957

    27 July 2009 - Phil Hetherington

    What would actually be wrong with preserving/restoring it as a tank wagon?

  • 041957

    27 July 2009 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Not aware it has moved though the SRPS have apologised for the delay in replying. I understand the comments as it is easy to have a collection of "important" items, relevant to enthusiasts and not the general public, but the bottom line these days is preserved items have to have some sort of use or revenue earning capacity/potential. It is also salutory to also realise that some steam locos have spent as long in revenue service as they have in "preservation" eg Flying Scotsman, hence the sucess of new builds to the future. It is not fair to single out individual preservation sites where "preserved" items wait patiently for salvation which in some cases may never actually come unless a "lottery" winner takes a fancy to them. For a selection of examples go on vintage carriages website and look at the "at risk" list and remember there is only so much spare cash these days

  • 041957

    28 November 2009 - iain chalmers

    Just found out the chaps at SRPS have launches an appeal to return this tender frame to Scotland. Need to raise 5900.

  • 041957

    28 November 2009 - Jon Horswell

    And apparently have worked out from which loco it came from.

  • 041957

    30 November 2009 - IAIN CHALMERS

    It's from Abbotsford origionally. I only found out about the appeal from the railway press recently. This despite doing an article for the NBR Study Group and correspending with SRPS on the subject. A copy of the article can be sent if you e-mail me.

  • 041957

    9 March 2010 - Keith Legg

    Spotted this very interesting survivor at Goodman's Yard on 6th Feb 2010. Didn't appreciate the significance of the frame until I was trying to identify the vehicle to caption my photograph and found this site. Not an expert on NBR unfortunately. I read with interest the comments above & all the issues with trying to re-create another loco. Look at the tank on this vehicle though... all rivetted and obviously of historical interst in its own right. Far less cash would be required to conserve the vehicle as it stands... would this not be the most practical option?

  • 041957

    10 March 2010 - IAIN CHALMERS

    Bit more news. The item in question was designated by Railway Heritage Commitee mid 12/09. I also understand that a separate appeal for money has raised enough to get it back to Scotland. The article did generate interest and further photos of ex atlantic boilers still in static use at Cowlairs circa 1950 in the NBR Study Group Journal and one of many comments came from Chairman GER Society. According to RCTS Locomotive of LNER part 10B the donor tank was a departmental GER vehicle. The GER Chairman is not convinced so any other offers?

  • 041957

    16 March 2010 - Paul Johnson

    Its on the move. i spotted it today at 8:10 on the A1 heading north just north of Newcastle.

  • 041957

    16 March 2010 - Ben Williams

    So - Scotland is for sure - assume Bo'Ness destination?

  • 041957

    17 March 2010 - IAIN CHALMERS

    As far as I know yes its going to SRPS but I do have letter dated 7/09 from John Evans of SRPS stating they didn't have a case for returning the item to them due to lack of storage, potential use and cost. I'll see if the SRPS website mentions it?

  • 041957

    18 March 2010 - Dave Shell - Northumbria Rail Ltd.

    Can confirm it is at Bo'ness - Ben contact me re photo