041957

Photo of 041957 at Moveright International, Wishaw

Vehicles in this photo

The following vehicle(s) appear in this photo.

Photo details

  • Moveright International, Wishaw
  • 14 October 2008
  • © Roy Hennefer

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Your comments

  • Ben Williams

    18 October 2008, 08:33:06

    Recently arrived here after spending many years in the yard opposite Cambridge station (behind the Intercity sandite coaches.) I'm not sure yet where its final home is...

  • okotokspaul

    18 October 2008, 17:16:23

    The number looks freshly painted??

  • Ben Williams

    18 October 2008, 17:34:17

    It does, but its not that new as I saw it on some other photos from some years back. Anyone know what it was used for at Cambridge please? Assume waste oil? And as previously discussed, it is thought the tank is actually an addition to an old steam tender underframe - hence its appeal to preservationists.

  • Paul Bartlett

    18 October 2008, 19:01:01

    I have recently posted two earlier photos of this at

    http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p54191835.html

    http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p54191836.html

    Does anyone know more about the origin of this - from the LNER departmental series. I do not know why I thought the frame was ex GER, someone suggested more possible to be GC.

    Paul

  • Ben Williams

    19 October 2008, 22:05:24

    Thanks Paul. Interesting to see it has been in the same spot since at least 1990!

  • Phil Hetherington

    20 October 2008, 16:40:25

    When I asked some of our loco chaps about this some while ago, they thought it looked like an LNER tender underframe (similar to the tender behind loco 61264, for example). I have not done a detailed comparison to verify this. Personally I think it's rather nice as a tank wagon!

  • Phil Hetherington

    20 October 2008, 16:56:09

    ...Although, further to previous, I can see more of Robinson about it than I can Gresley/Thompson. A quick look at www.lner.info for photos and comparison of the 'cut out' shape between the axles shows what I mean.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    21 October 2008, 08:26:11

    I would agree this is a GCR tender frame. The only issue is the missing steps, if they were added it is virtually identical to the tender frame of Morayshire a preserved D49 at SRPS. I've not had time to look at the O4 preserved on the GCR railway in Loughborough but would politely guess its the same ie it is of GCR origin

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    30 October 2008, 14:49:43

    Found an article from about a year ago and it mentioned an old boiler at Manngapps Farm being used for a "new build" D7 (a GCR engine) This would be at Loughborough I guess so did they get the tender?

  • Ben Williams

    30 October 2008, 15:00:05

    Interesting! The boiler is no doubt this one

    http://www.departmentals.com/photo/041978

    which was broken up last year I believe. However I don't think it would be compatible with this frame...?

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    31 October 2008, 19:09:29

    I have to agree, having done some more "digging" the boiler on 041978 is round top and the D7 project boiler is belpaire. I also found a website with lots of of information on the D7 project: just "google" Great Central Railway Rolling Stock Trust. They also have a bit on the "Barnum" coaches which were in departmental stock, one being at Barnetby Station. The D7 project also admits to having a GCR tender frame which was used as a snowplough. So the GCR frame pictured is where exactly? Another little aside 4 boilers were found in 1986, one is with the D7 project, one with the "atlantic project" on the Bluebell Railway and thus were are the other two?

  • Phil Hetherington

    7 November 2008, 11:34:09

    Piecing various strands of information together it now seems that this is a much older GCR tender frame (Parker/Pollitt era) whereas the one the D9 project have is a newer one (Robinson era). But not having seen either, this info is unconfirmed. Certainly there are slight differences between this one and photos I can find of Robinson ones, although there is a family likeness.

  • Chris Hembry

    18 November 2008, 18:51:57

    This is in fact NBR tender number 9879 (ex C11). Withdrawn in 1936 and converted to sludge tender at Doncaster. Converted again at Doncaster in 1944 as a fuel tank for use with J45(DES1) diesel shunters. Never used at Cambridge but spent most its life at Whitemoor yard.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    19 November 2008, 18:19:45

    Thanks for this final comment it was NBR. I've trawled throught the RCTS Locomotive of the LNER and it all begins to make sense. One of 11 sent south in 1936 after withdrawl of NBR Atlantics. A photo exists of one, as a sludge tender, at Grantham in the early 1950's in LNER livery as departmental 941672. It clearly matches the one shown here, though in my defense it has always been commented, probably wrongly, the NBR Atlantics (C11) shared features with the GCR Atlantics. The RCTS Part 10a says the tank came from service vehicle 962033 and the new vehicle was numbered 961880. The final sentence says its fate is undiscovered! Hope it has gone to a good home, could even use it as part of a new build NBR Atlantic?

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    8 December 2008, 10:01:15

    Anyone know what finallly happened to this vehicle?

  • Dave Smith

    8 December 2008, 10:43:50

    its bin scrapped

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    8 December 2008, 16:07:11

    Thanks for the information. I think the chaps at SRPS will be a tad unhappy that we have lost this piece of Scottish history. To top it off they were recently offered the turntable from Perth but it was cut up before they could get to it!

  • Ben Williams

    8 December 2008, 16:15:10

    I'm almost certain it is still at Wishaw actually...

  • Jon Horswell

    8 December 2008, 17:56:12

    Can someone please find out for sure as after so long OOU it will be a real shame to see it scrapped.

  • Phillip J. Fry

    8 December 2008, 22:52:28

    I was at Wishaw yesterday - it definitely wasn't there. The lads in the yard said it went to nearby Kingsbury

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    9 December 2008, 09:51:59

    strange this I did text a certain A Goodman who I know through his ownership of an Austerity and e-mailed the company but no reply to either. Personally one of my favourite class of locomotive and one was deemed worthy of preservation in 1938 but finally cut up due to Mr A Hitler invading Poland in 1939. I doubt I'll be alone in being "gutted" but accept some things are beyond redemption though for its age it looked not too bad!

  • Ben Williams

    9 December 2008, 10:36:18

    I will be a little shocked too if this really has gone for scrap considering how long it has survived and the reasons discussed above... I will make enquiries.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    9 December 2008, 17:47:36

    I can definitely confirm it is not scrapped, having spoken to A Goodman personally this PM, and is still in the yard. The good news is its identity is now known and confirmed (with help from this site) so it is likely to go to a good home. I've certainly passed this information to SRPS and NBR Study Group who seemed unaware of the recent developments

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    10 December 2008, 08:37:44

    Promise my last posting on this. I also suspect its posted to the wrong bit but the North British Railway Study Group would like to publish an article on this and abviously need permission to use this photograph. Can this be granted please?

  • Ben Williams

    10 December 2008, 11:44:06

    Good news it still exists. I have forwarded your request to Roy. I would appreciate it if the website could also get a mention please!

  • Roy Hennefer

    10 December 2008, 17:50:41

    Iain, Happy for you to use the pic providing mention is made of this website. Will email you this and the other pic I took if you wish.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    11 December 2008, 11:24:51

    Thanks for the kind generous offer to allow us to use both photos. I've already drafted an article and the website gets a mention. I've also let the SRPS know and hopefully this tender can get a home back in Scotland. I'll obviously also acknowledge in the article the origional copyright and permission to use. Thanks once again and amazed she has survived for 72 years after withdrawl.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    21 May 2009, 09:05:11

    Just a bit more. The chaps from SRPS have visited and confirmed what was known ie NBR atlantic tender. Lets hope they feel its a viable and worthwhile item to save

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    27 July 2009, 10:06:15

    I'm afraid it doesn't look good. Got a letter from the SRPS chaps recently and they reasonably consider saving it could be possible but what would you do with it in the longer term? I have to say I agree that there is no point in collecting historical items and allowing them to continue to deteriorate in a different part of the country. The NBR Atlantic story is now complete.

  • Ben Williams

    27 July 2009, 14:02:37

    Assume still at Wishaw at the moment?

  • Phil Hetherington

    27 July 2009, 17:03:51

    What would actually be wrong with preserving/restoring it as a tank wagon?

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    27 July 2009, 17:39:27

    Not aware it has moved though the SRPS have apologised for the delay in replying. I understand the comments as it is easy to have a collection of "important" items, relevant to enthusiasts and not the general public, but the bottom line these days is preserved items have to have some sort of use or revenue earning capacity/potential. It is also salutory to also realise that some steam locos have spent as long in revenue service as they have in "preservation" eg Flying Scotsman, hence the sucess of new builds to the future. It is not fair to single out individual preservation sites where "preserved" items wait patiently for salvation which in some cases may never actually come unless a "lottery" winner takes a fancy to them. For a selection of examples go on vintage carriages website and look at the "at risk" list and remember there is only so much spare cash these days

  • iain chalmers

    28 November 2009, 21:31:18

    Just found out the chaps at SRPS have launches an appeal to return this tender frame to Scotland. Need to raise 5900.

  • Jon Horswell

    28 November 2009, 21:58:50

    And apparently have worked out from which loco it came from.

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    30 November 2009, 10:25:42

    It's from Abbotsford origionally. I only found out about the appeal from the railway press recently. This despite doing an article for the NBR Study Group and correspending with SRPS on the subject. A copy of the article can be sent if you e-mail me.

  • Keith Legg

    9 March 2010, 22:40:07

    Spotted this very interesting survivor at Goodman's Yard on 6th Feb 2010. Didn't appreciate the significance of the frame until I was trying to identify the vehicle to caption my photograph and found this site. Not an expert on NBR unfortunately. I read with interest the comments above & all the issues with trying to re-create another loco. Look at the tank on this vehicle though... all rivetted and obviously of historical interst in its own right. Far less cash would be required to conserve the vehicle as it stands... would this not be the most practical option?

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    10 March 2010, 15:33:22

    Bit more news. The item in question was designated by Railway Heritage Commitee mid 12/09. I also understand that a separate appeal for money has raised enough to get it back to Scotland. The article did generate interest and further photos of ex atlantic boilers still in static use at Cowlairs circa 1950 in the NBR Study Group Journal and one of many comments came from Chairman GER Society. According to RCTS Locomotive of LNER part 10B the donor tank was a departmental GER vehicle. The GER Chairman is not convinced so any other offers?

  • Paul Johnson

    16 March 2010, 10:25:51

    Its on the move. i spotted it today at 8:10 on the A1 heading north just north of Newcastle.

  • Ben Williams

    16 March 2010, 20:50:13

    So - Scotland is for sure - assume Bo'Ness destination?

  • IAIN CHALMERS

    17 March 2010, 08:31:28

    As far as I know yes its going to SRPS but I do have letter dated 7/09 from John Evans of SRPS stating they didn't have a case for returning the item to them due to lack of storage, potential use and cost. I'll see if the SRPS website mentions it?

  • Dave Shell - Northumbria Rail Ltd.

    18 March 2010, 19:35:03

    Can confirm it is at Bo'ness - Ben contact me re photo


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